Curse

Divinus Stella · Nov 19, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

I think another problem that hasnt been mentioned directly is the value of rank, it is linked with the balance issues Lorekeeper mentioned but i feel its a seperate issue, to begin with a lot of people got into HA just to rank up.
Over time the value of rank has suffered due to anet not responding to builds that have devalued fame, i think this has taken away a lot of peoples drive to play.

One of the main reasons its hard to get teams together is people just cant be bothered, you can get a group going for a run or two and then people will just go do something else because theres nothing really keeping people playing longer, especially when people get past r9 theres bery little to aim for rank wise unless you want to invest large portions of your life.

shoogi · Nov 19, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

First let me correct you, IWAY is back again, so there are still noobway builds.
There will always be scrubways, can't help it. The worship of fame caused that, as people don't care how good they play or what entertainment and interest they find in tombs. As long as it gives them the holy fame, they have no problem farming uw, fr and bg over and over again. That, however, doesn't happen in GvG. Guilds don't care much about their guild rank and champion title isn't as worshipped as hero title is. Now I ask- what's the difference? And I answer-
a. Hero title has a special emote that adds luxury.
b. the gimmick farming scrubs believe that they must get rank in order to stop being victims of rank discrimination (which is incorrect and irrelevant because they still farm gimmicks when they allegedly don't need it anymore).
c. achieving champion title requires some mental effort which the scrubs aren't willing to spend.

So how can the HA learn from GvG how to discourage gimmicks? There are several possible solutions.
- Some people say that removing the title system from PvP will solve the problem, because players got nothing to farm for. In my opinion, this is very wrong and will only cause more dwindling in PvP population. Other similar steps, such as removing /rank emote, will only cause damage.
- More attention from Anet. As Lorekeeper said, Anet cares a lot more about GvG balance flaws than it does about HA balance issues.
- Fix HA mechanics. Less blunt annihilation, more tactics. Examples- Bring back DP to ALL maps (I still fail to understand why it was removed in the first place). Bring back Sacred Temples (arguably was the best map in the circuit). Change something about that uw-fr-bg sequence, that very encourages gimmicks. Improve HoH objectives.

Atm, HA doesn't rival GvG. GvG beats tombs in every aspect, so players that look for fun and challenge and not blunt c+space go there. Anet must think how they can make HA an alternative to GvG, and attract players to that dead arena.

Bacon Went Monk · Nov 21, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Bring back how it was when HA was Tombs, ID1 was the skilled players, and rifts gave your moral. Then it will be fixed.

Killed u man · Nov 22, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Observe my friend.

What happened this update, is they went from 1 viable build to 3... Yes, it's an improvement, but it has been better (When it was altar holding, NF-weekend).

No more spiritway?

It's been like this for over a month now...(The problem is 3 Eles, 2 thumpers, for over a month now, which barely got a nerf) People still run 2 Fire eles, 1 Water, but instead of thumpers (Which you still alot, imo), they now bring an axe/hammer warrior... Ow wait, now it's called balanced (Sarcasm, *cough* NERF FIRE *cough*)

No more spikes?

Look at me and my guild (NaNa), we used to hold 3-4 hours a day with ritspike, now everyone is copying our build. Nonetheless, it's extremely overpowered and easy to run, but HEY, I'm pretty sure everyone in this post has a clue what they are talking about. (Because all of them are SOOO active in HA)

Ganking still is the same. Cap Points is still the poor implemented mechanism that will NEVER become somewhat close to fair, unless on a 1v1 scenario... Relic Run remains the "Wait, don't cap yet"-fest, WHICH MIGHT be solved by introducing "capping first > capping last", but nonetheless it will remain boring and, unlike what people say, gimmick based... (It pretty much comes down to how many snares you have, hex breaker, spell breaker, etc)

HoH won't improve, I've given up on Anet... They DON'T want the game to be fun, they want new people to get as much fame as they can. These new people will mayby get their "friends" to buy GW too, seeing how easy it is to "own", no months of game-awareness required. They will mayby buy new character slots, and eventually buy GW2... Unfortuniatly, for people like me, who don't play HA for the "fame", but for fun, well, we get left outside, alone...

Lorekeeper · Nov 22, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

HA has seen a kind of step back in time from what ive seen. People are running zergway (regardless of the ''nerf'' it got to drunken and desperation blow) which has caused the re-emergence of SS necro centered hex builds with migraine mesmers... someone said on vent the other nite... its just like the old days =) and she was right... fighting old school hex builds reminds me of the days when iway was all over tombs like a rash.

builds being run

Dual DA assassin with 3 ele (semi-spike)
Axe war + dom mes with triple ele (pressure with spike)
Dervish/Ass and D/E spikes with either ele or paragon midlines (spike)
Zergway - with different variants (pure pressure)
Rit spike with 3 or 1 monk backline (pure spike)
Heavy hex - with 2 monk backline (pure pressure)
Medium hex - with with 3 monk backline (pressure with spike)
Heroway (pressure)
Ranger spike (pure spike)
(anyone seen anymore?)

(only thing missing is a condition build... although i have seen a nasty taint+tox+lacerate build being run.)

Id say things are improving... and not a single thing has been done to the mechanics... things arent perfect by any stretch of the imagination but seeing a larger variety of builds is a VERY good thing.

strange that.

Takida · Nov 22, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

And yet ha is boring

strange that.

Nurse With Wound · Nov 22, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Not enough good teams, not enough people playing, too many friends and enemies gone forever, no HA guilds, no guild vs guild HoH competition, no prestige gained from winning HoH ( no one cares atm ), no multiteam maps, no rifts, no tombs, no fun.

Yeah, boring.

But on the other hand its a big improvement since the heroway 1man teams nightmare, paragon holding teams ( energizing finale ), and latest spiritway trash. But it's hardly the best HA there was.

Full Metal X · Nov 22, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

First let me correct you, IWAY is back again, so there are still noobway builds.
There will always be scrubways, can't help it. The worship of fame caused that, as people don't care how good they play or what entertainment and interest they find in tombs. As long as it gives them the holy fame, they have no problem farming uw, fr and bg over and over again. That, however, doesn't happen in GvG. Guilds don't care much about their guild rank and champion title isn't as worshipped as hero title is. Now I ask- what's the difference? And I answer-
a. Hero title has a special emote that adds luxury.
b. the gimmick farming scrubs believe that they must get rank in order to stop being victims of rank discrimination (which is incorrect and irrelevant because they still farm gimmicks when they allegedly don't need it anymore).
c. achieving champion title requires some mental effort which the scrubs aren't willing to spend.

So how can the HA learn from GvG how to discourage gimmicks? There are several possible solutions.
- Some people say that removing the title system from PvP will solve the problem, because players got nothing to farm for. In my opinion, this is very wrong and will only cause more dwindling in PvP population. Other similar steps, such as removing /rank emote, will only cause damage.
- More attention from Anet. As Lorekeeper said, Anet cares a lot more about GvG balance flaws than it does about HA balance issues.
- Fix HA mechanics. Less blunt annihilation, more tactics. Examples- Bring back DP to ALL maps (I still fail to understand why it was removed in the first place). Bring back Sacred Temples (arguably was the best map in the circuit). Change something about that uw-fr-bg sequence, that very encourages gimmicks. Improve HoH objectives.

Atm, HA doesn't rival GvG. GvG beats tombs in every aspect, so players that look for fun and challenge and not blunt c+space go there. Anet must think how they can make HA an alternative to GvG, and attract players to that dead arena.

People farm Champ points in gvg all the time.

mattjenkins · Nov 22, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

IMO, tombs will never be as good as the days of rspike, blood spike, air spike, dual smite, iway, dual surge, dual migrane, minion factory lolz
in other words, the earlier days when hoh was only a capping thing, none of this relic run at hoh bs

also i liked 2 para holding teams with energizing finale and going in with random r9+ and holding with [fcuk] necro build
mmmmz that was fun

Alleji · Nov 23, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I watched a few halls games just now. Most of them were 1v1, the other two were straight-up ganks. As in, the third team didn't even pretend they're trying to win.

Sure, skills might be relatively balanced now (although I doubt this game can be anywhere close to normal as long as paragons exist) but the relic run in halls is still distilled gayness. Hell, it's not even entertaining to watch. As long as that is in the game, I'm not.

kosh · Nov 23, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Observe my friend.

What happened this update, is they went from 1 viable build to 3... Yes, it's an improvement, but it has been better (When it was altar holding, NF-weekend).

No more spiritway?

It's been like this for over a month now...(The problem is 3 Eles, 2 thumpers, for over a month now, which barely got a nerf) People still run 2 Fire eles, 1 Water, but instead of thumpers (Which you still alot, imo), they now bring an axe/hammer warrior... Ow wait, now it's called balanced (Sarcasm, *cough* NERF FIRE *cough*)

No more spikes?

Look at me and my guild (NaNa), we used to hold 3-4 hours a day with ritspike, now everyone is copying our build. Nonetheless, it's extremely overpowered and easy to run, but HEY, I'm pretty sure everyone in this post has a clue what they are talking about. (Because all of them are SOOO active in HA)

Ganking still is the same. Cap Points is still the poor implemented mechanism that will NEVER become somewhat close to fair, unless on a 1v1 scenario... Relic Run remains the "Wait, don't cap yet"-fest, WHICH MIGHT be solved by introducing "capping first > capping last", but nonetheless it will remain boring and, unlike what people say, gimmick based... (It pretty much comes down to how many snares you have, hex breaker, spell breaker, etc)

HoH won't improve, I've given up on Anet... They DON'T want the game to be fun, they want new people to get as much fame as they can. These new people will mayby get their "friends" to buy GW too, seeing how easy it is to "own", no months of game-awareness required. They will mayby buy new character slots, and eventually buy GW2... Unfortuniatly, for people like me, who don't play HA for the "fame", but for fun, well, we get left outside, alone...

so wait...
you telling us to that you run rit spike but you have given up on a.net? lol wtf??? you and your "so called" guild run rit spike and you qq about the fire kills your spirts? LOL.

you talk about ppl want to farm fame but that all rit spike??? a fame farming build. LOL WTF again? your a guy that think the rit spike is viable the a is equal to "so called" balance.

i like "we dont play for fame part". lol. next thing il know people will start saying that [sog[ is great guild and how good they are

you shell have red tears /

Riotgear · Nov 23, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Relic Run has the worst scoring system in anything ever. It's like you're being told "haha noob, run those relics SLOWER next time and maybe you'll win!"

Cass · Nov 23, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I watched a few halls games just now. Most of them were 1v1, the other two were straight-up ganks. As in, the third team didn't even pretend they're trying to win.

Sure, skills might be relatively balanced now (although I doubt this game can be anywhere close to normal as long as paragons exist) but the relic run in halls is still distilled gayness. Hell, it's not even entertaining to watch. As long as that is in the game, I'm not.

You said it. Ganking has taken center stage. Don't even come with "ganking was always there". Yes it was, but never have the mechanics of winning favored the practice more than they do now. And never have I had it happen so often, seemingly concluding the majority of HA runs.

It has basically become very boring to fight through endless lines of scrubs running the same shit thinking they are good at the game, only to get ganked just when you'd expect to face some better teams and have a good match. In halls, the frequent reality is that some thumpway c-spaces you and gives the victory to the laughing 3rd team.

The new mechanics of cap points are not great either. Meant to discourage spike builds or so (as if), but it's just not very interesting to play. Cap points in halls are stupid also. I actually prefer relic running, even though the mechanism of winning is weird and people hate it for that.

wuzzman · Nov 23, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Observe my friend.

What happened this update, is they went from 1 viable build to 3... Yes, it's an improvement, but it has been better (When it was altar holding, NF-weekend).

No more spiritway?

It's been like this for over a month now...(The problem is 3 Eles, 2 thumpers, for over a month now, which barely got a nerf) People still run 2 Fire eles, 1 Water, but instead of thumpers (Which you still alot, imo), they now bring an axe/hammer warrior... Ow wait, now it's called balanced (Sarcasm, *cough* NERF FIRE *cough*)

No more spikes?

Look at me and my guild (NaNa), we used to hold 3-4 hours a day with ritspike, now everyone is copying our build. Nonetheless, it's extremely overpowered and easy to run, but HEY, I'm pretty sure everyone in this post has a clue what they are talking about. (Because all of them are SOOO active in HA)

Ganking still is the same. Cap Points is still the poor implemented mechanism that will NEVER become somewhat close to fair, unless on a 1v1 scenario... Relic Run remains the "Wait, don't cap yet"-fest, WHICH MIGHT be solved by introducing "capping first > capping last", but nonetheless it will remain boring and, unlike what people say, gimmick based... (It pretty much comes down to how many snares you have, hex breaker, spell breaker, etc)

HoH won't improve, I've given up on Anet... They DON'T want the game to be fun, they want new people to get as much fame as they can. These new people will mayby get their "friends" to buy GW too, seeing how easy it is to "own", no months of game-awareness required. They will mayby buy new character slots, and eventually buy GW2... Unfortuniatly, for people like me, who don't play HA for the "fame", but for fun, well, we get left outside, alone...

correction. The only change Anet made to encourage new players to HA was the 6v6 change. Other then that the frequent HoH changes were made for players like, well above. New players don't demand changes to maps they never reach, new players demand to get into groups. And Ha is not pug friendly so why the hell will new players come or tell their friends about coming into guild wars? I can see the conversation "Man dude, come to Guild Wars you have to wait 3 hours to find a group! And oh yeah the groups you do find suck balls!". Honestly the only thing getting new players entering Guild Wars is its pve and that is sad.

jull · Nov 24, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

is your post a joke?

what is Ha meta?

Fear me, Rt spike, fear me, Rt spike, Rt spike, fear me, Ranger spike, ranger spike.

Most completly stupid builds that need few organisation.

it s a shame, HA sucks so much, i regret the time where balanced were owning that shit.

Developers are idiots

blood seeker · Nov 25, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

ATM HA is the worst as it has ever been

Kyp Jade · Nov 25, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

HA is kinda dull really because not to many people are interested in playing something different, they will play the same build they played over and over, play some gimmick or another, or copy past from observer.

Risus · Nov 25, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

lol in Ways, I think they forgot the Balanced-WAY

just kidding, spiritway was FUN if you had a good group though.

Renowned Spartan · Nov 26, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

First let me correct you, IWAY is back again, so there are still noobway builds.
There will always be scrubways, can't help it. The worship of fame caused that, as people don't care how good they play or what entertainment and interest they find in tombs. As long as it gives them the holy fame, they have no problem farming uw, fr and bg over and over again. That, however, doesn't happen in GvG. Guilds don't care much about their guild rank and champion title isn't as worshipped as hero title is. Now I ask- what's the difference? And I answer-
a. Hero title has a special emote that adds luxury.
b. the gimmick farming scrubs believe that they must get rank in order to stop being victims of rank discrimination (which is incorrect and irrelevant because they still farm gimmicks when they allegedly don't need it anymore).
c. achieving champion title requires some mental effort which the scrubs aren't willing to spend.

So how can the HA learn from GvG how to discourage gimmicks? There are several possible solutions.
- Some people say that removing the title system from PvP will solve the problem, because players got nothing to farm for. In my opinion, this is very wrong and will only cause more dwindling in PvP population. Other similar steps, such as removing /rank emote, will only cause damage.
- More attention from Anet. As Lorekeeper said, Anet cares a lot more about GvG balance flaws than it does about HA balance issues.
- Fix HA mechanics. Less blunt annihilation, more tactics. Examples- Bring back DP to ALL maps (I still fail to understand why it was removed in the first place). Bring back Sacred Temples (arguably was the best map in the circuit). Change something about that uw-fr-bg sequence, that very encourages gimmicks. Improve HoH objectives.

Atm, HA doesn't rival GvG. GvG beats tombs in every aspect, so players that look for fun and challenge and not blunt c+space go there. Anet must think how they can make HA an alternative to GvG, and attract players to that dead arena.

That's a joke right? I play with top 100 guilds week in and week out and gimmicky builds, while not as prevalent in GvG as they are in HA, are still out there. For instance, Forlorn Saviours [FS], which I was a part of, got a bronze trim from obs spike. Moreover, guilds like Souls of Glory [SoG] still seem to land on the top 100 for GvG and then go win halls with b-spike; Hell, [Apex] manages to farm champ points using heroway...and as it stands, I'd be willing to bet that there are more HA'ers in the game than GvG'ers (Not counting the guilds that are rank 3000 that go into GvG once and get wrecked). Bottom line, champ points take the place of fame in GvG, and gimmickways are still apparent in that form of PvP too lol..to say that HA should learn from GvG is pretty ignorant.

Ado · Nov 27, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Buildwars killed HA a long time ago, everyone knows that. Risus, you said you were just kidding about Balanced-way, but in fact you're right. Balanced was pre-set for ages. (2 wars, 2 mes, warder and 3 monks anyone?)